A conversation with entertainment lawyer John Seay, who has represented acts across a wide range of genres including acts from Atlantic Records, Interscope Records, Secretly Canadian, Merge, and many more.
As we’ll touch on in our conversation – there are a TON of different questions one might have for an entertainment lawyer, but John is going to help us demystify what exactly an entertainment lawyer does, and when a musician like YOU should approach someone like him for his services.
TRANSCRIPT
Frank Keith 0:00
Hi everyone, I’m Frank Keith of Sweetheart Pub, and welcome back to the podcast.
This week on Music Rookie is a conversation with Entertainment Lawyer John Seay, who recently became a partner at new Atlanta-based legal firm Carter + Woodard. John previously owned and operated his own practice, the Seay Firm, where he represented acts across a wide span of genres and with labels the likes of Atlantic Records, Interscope, Secretly Canadian, Merge, and many more.
As we’ll touch on in our conversation – there are a TON of different questions one might have for an entertainment lawyer, but John is going to help us demystify what exactly he does and also what folks in his profession do day to day. He’ll also share some advice with us on when a musician like YOU should approach someone like him, whether you’re registering a copyright or getting a sample cleared, there’s a zillion different things we could talk about. So without further ado, let’s get started and talk with John Seay.
Frank Keith 1:09
When should a musician engage someone like you, an entertainment lawyer, I think that’s probably a pretty spooky term to someone who’s just getting started. Maybe they don’t have a team built yet. Or maybe they’ve gotten a manager, or they’ve just gotten a booking agent. And they’re still figuring it out. When should they be thinking about talking to someone like you?
John Seay 1:31
Sure. So, definitely, once they have something that they’re being asked to sign, or if they need something drafted, certainly then before signing anything, you probably should consult with someone you should consult with someone. If you are uncertain, though, most lawyers, certainly- I take time to, I mean, chat with people and see whether they need me. So I don’t think that it’s necessarily ever too early, to at least reach out and maybe establish that connection and see who you may want to work with when you do need something. And, you know, I mean, have just a short 10 to 15 minute conversation with someone and then lock that person in. And, you know, reach out when you do need real legal work. But it’s always better to ask, and I always tell people, like, you know, if they actually don’t need me, or if it’s something that they could theoretically do themselves, if they want to save money, like registering copyrights, for example, I certainly do that. I charge for it. But I’ve also written blog posts walking people how to do it on your own. So if you, happen to have an hour and a half, you could save money. So I’m definitely not shy with that, you know, I don’t really like, make money doing copyrights. So I’m happy for clients to I mean, do that just themselves.
Frank Keith 3:11
How many artists do you represent? How busy do you stay? Like, you know, people can come to you, obviously, is the advice always free if there’s not work for you to do?
John Seay 3:22
Yeah, so I mostly charge when there is a contract for the huge majority of my clients, I typically do flat fees for those contracts, whether that’s drawing something up or reviewing something, that in many cases, the record label covers my fee, or the publishing company, or whatever. So I sometimes just build that in to the contract. And sometimes that money kind of floats people for a while for some other minor things that they may need. I try to not charge hourly, except for my most, I guess, maybe successful clients, who, you know, it’s just easier to, I guess, build up hourly for phone calls for emails for things like that. But I try to just do flat fees. And then I don’t really build, I guess, emerging artists for very much, you know, other than that, because I would rather they feel comfortable coming to me versus, you know, I’m gonna get some $300 bill, because, I chatted with John for 20 minutes, or whatever. So, I’m really upfront with that. I hate getting hit with bills that I don’t fully expect. So I run my practice like that. And then, you know, I mean, flat fees are just easier for people, you know, it’s a fixed cost, they can budget for it. I do sometimes bill on a sliding scale, you know, if you get offered a record deal with maybe no advance or a small advance, then I typically drastically reduce my fee versus doing you know, a major record label deal where there’s definitely money for legal. I stay very busy. You know, I, I probably work with, 100 unique clients per year. Typically, it’s pretty much all music now. Probably 90% of music, some other odds and ends here.
Frank Keith 5:22
Entertainment law, someone like you, you’re probably genre agnostic, right? Like, a contract is a contract.
John Seay 5:29
Yeah, I actually do mostly rap, which I love the genre, and the community. It’s really interesting work. There’s more of it, because there’s producers and mixers, loop makers, artists, record labels, there’s just more parties involved typically. So there’s more legal work. But of course, I kind of come from the indie rock world. I do so represent numerous clients there, you know, also country and it’s really more important for me to connect on a personal level with someone, I listen to everything, I’ve got clients, I love that I don’t really like, I don’t go for their music, generally, I get into it because I might be invested in the project from working, you know,, or I just really liked them. But you know, it is special when there is something that I work on that I also really love. It does happen periodically, where those lined up, but they certainly don’t have to.
Frank Keith 6:34
How about some mistakes, see day to day, be that from artists, label people, anyone you work with, can you throw anything at me? Please don’t.
John Seay 6:46
I mean, really signing things without having them reviewed. Because you know, even if you may understand what you’re reading, you may not know what’s missing from the contract that should be there, you just don’t know what you don’t know, basically, you may lack perspective on it, I would say definitely don’t let someone pressure you into signing something. I mean, take time to get someone to read over that with you, preferably a lawyer, preferably someone you know, who’s got ample entertainment law experience specifically to review it with you.
And you don’t want to, I guess, over-lawyer things. But I mean, you do see people who get into trouble by not having band agreements, it’s just good to know what the options are. You may decide that you don’t need one of those, and that’s totally fine, you know? I mean, most artists, all artists really have limited budgets, right? So you can’t just pay lawyers thousands I mean, paper every single situation, right? But it’s good to have to at least know what the risk is. So I mean, really think through, like prepare for success, right? And I mean, with success is going to come some issues like, “Oh, we should have had that guy sign this work for hire for him, when he laid down that part.” I mean, some of that kind of has to be learned a hard way because it is challenging sometimes when you kind of get a plan a band and you don’t want to be like a lame guy coming in with the contract. So you know, I understand band dynamics like that, I’ve certainly been there too, having played in many bands. And really, that’s why working with someone like a lawyer, a really good manager can be good, that person can help guide you, they can be the lane person coming in saying “Hey, like you guys need this.” And then some clients hide behind their lawyers just a little bit with that stuff, you know, and, and lets them preserve their relationships, and really focus on their craft, while we are handling, you know, the business aspects of it.
Frank Keith 9:00
Anything you want to touch on, thinking of musicians that maybe they are in a label, maybe they’re not on a label yet, maybe they have been together for five years, maybe they’ve been together five months and don’t have a record out? You already touched on it from a legal perspective, just look before you leap kind of thing. But any advice to up and coming acts looking to build a career?
John Seay 9:29
Well, I think you’re gonna like this.
Frank Keith 9:31
Oh, boy.
John Seay 9:32
Don’t just, I mean, don’t just drop your project. You’ve really gotta have a plan. It’s just so much music out there. It’s so much really good music. That it can be hard to, I mean, rise above it. And you’re tempted to, I guess, get that immediate endorphin rush from your friends like posting about it, it dies down pretty quickly that way. If you can’t afford to hire someone, you can pay people to at least consult with you, you know, and maybe help you develop some plan on your own. If you can’t hire someone for a full campaign. I mean, consider that be intentional. I see so many artists, you spent so many months working on a project and then, you know, they just put it out there and they don’t work, you know, on rolling it out, getting good video content, whatever. A unified like social media approach, whatever it is, I mean, something intentional about it. So I would try to, I mean, save some money in your budget for that. And don’t just spend it on recording it, you know, because even though that is the most important piece, it’s definitely not the only piece. I mean, don’t just pick people’s brain, like pay them for their time.
Frank Keith 10:55
Sure.
John Seay 10:56
I mean, I mean, what people know, is really valuable. Their time is really valuable. I mean, pay 250, 300, whatever someone charges for just you know, an hour of their time, you know, to help you. I mean, be your own publicist for a little bit.
Frank Keith 11:15
And there you have it. Thanks to John for taking the time to speak with me and for giving us an inside look at what exactly someone in his field does. This is a theme that we’ll likely hear often in our discussions, but I can’t emphasize strongly enough how important relationship-building and networking is in the music business, no matter how far along you are or think you are. It’s 100% a business of relationships, and at the very least, knowing who to call on when the time comes will be massively helpful to you as you progress in your career.
As always, thanks for listening, and if you’re interested in more insider information like this, be sure to check out our weekly newsletter. You can sign up on sweetheartpub.com. And don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already, that way you’ll be notified when the next one comes out. If you have any specific questions, feel free to tweet me or shoot me an email- I am not hard to find.
Same goes for follow up questions for John, or any of our guests. We’ll kind of act as go-betweens. If you wanna reach out to us, we’d be happy to check in with them or put you in touch if that seems to be the better route.
This episode was produced by me, Frank Keith IV, and I’m also responsible for our theme music that you’ve been hearing the past few weeks– That’s something Rachel noted I’ve neglected to share on recent episodes. I’m still working out general housekeeping, but I like to think Rachel & I are getting the hang of it, and I hope you guys are gonna stick with us for the long run here.
And with that, as always, go do something useful.
